Andre Ward is virtually alone.
There is, of course, another way to phrase that: The individual roundly designated as the No. 2 fighter in the world … is all by himself.
In the sports world, to find an elite athlete sans entourage is really something. But for a prizefighter, it’s highly unusual, if not downright strange.
But then again, no, Ward is not your average athlete or person. So when the Oakland-native came to visit our offices for a round of interviews with us and The Shadow League, flanked by a rep from HBO who apparently didn’t stay for long, the absence of a phalanx of handlers seemed fitting. He was dressed neatly in a black suit, white shirt and black tie — all business.
“The culture in boxing is such that if it’s not something negative or crazy, journalists don’t want to cover it,” he said of his demeanor. “That’s cool, but I’ve got to be me. And if people take notice of that, great.”
Ward spoke just a day before he was due to join the HBO crew to cover a double-header at Boardwalk Hall, which featured the return of the supremely talented Cuban boxer Guillermo Rigondeaux. He headed back to California where, presumably, he went to prepare for the final stages of attempting to break from his longtime promoter, Dan Goossen.
“The legal process that I’m going through right now should have no bearing on my getting back in the ring as soon as possible,†Ward wrote in an email to the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday morning.
In our interview, you’ll notice hints of Ward’s displeasure with his current deal, which runs through 2015. He faces an uphill battle, but was in high spirits. The interview lasted a little over 45 minutes.
B.E. Sports Biz: You’re doing a lot of television for HBO Boxing and not to be a suck up, but you’re quite good at it. What kind of training went into that?
Andre Ward: For me, I think a lot of my training came from watching. I’m a visual learner. I knew this was something that I wanted to do. I don’t just watch boxing broadcasts, I watched football, basketball, baseball, you name it. I looked for things like mannerisms, body language, the energy they display; but also in the midst of all of that; understanding that I have to be myself. That was like my education. Then from there it was just getting the reps. I got some smaller opportunities with some small networks. Ironically enough, before I got the gig with HBO I did an internship to learn the business from the production side with Comcast in San Francisco. I had a couple of auditions with HBO and they went well. Now it’s just about getting more and more polished. I watch guys like Jim Lampley and Max Kellerman and Al Bernstein, who’s been a tremendous help and taken me under his wing mentoring me. He’s probably helped me the most out of everyone.
I really just have the desire to get better at it. I have an advantage over most guys because I am a boxer, but doing television is a completely different animal. That’s why I need to study and take notes if I’m going to become a great broadcaster, and I do want to become a great broadcaster. I have a stack of notes — I take reps in the mirror like most people [Laughs]. It’s work. It’s not easy. I feel like I have a natural something about me that makes me a really good communicator but I still have a lot of work to do.
Do you see Lampley and those guys you mentioned — Kellerman — as your colleagues?
It’s kind of weird hearing that, but they are when I’m in the broadcast booth. They’re my partners. And I learn a great deal from those guys. Lampley has a memory like an elephant. He has no notes. He runs the whole show and he makes it look easy. Kellerman is a younger guy but he’s been around and has done a lot of things in television. It’s a cumulative effect on me to help me become what I want to become as a broadcaster. But the best thing is I’m able to make a decent living and I’m not taking any punches. So that’s a bonus.
It sounds like that’s very important to you.
Very important. Because ultimately, the broadcasting is part of my exit strategy. That’s what I’m in the beginning stages of creating. Because I’ll be 30 in February. I’m coming up on ten years as a professional. I’ve got ten years as an amateur in the bank. That’s twenty years of boxing — I don’t know how much longer I have. That sounds crazy to people when I say that as a 29-year-old, but I feel like it’s my duty to think like this. A lot of guys find themselves on the wrong end of their career, with no plan B and fighting longer than they should because they thought it would never end.
Is it a difficult experience to analyze a fight? You’re a fighter —
It is.
How so?
It’s hard for me to critique guys and say certain things sometimes. That’s one thing that Lampley and the folks at HBO told me from day one, that I have to be willing to do that. That’s something that I’m actively working on. But I also feel like I have an advantage, too. Take the fighter meetings for example. When he walks into that room, I understand the look in his eyes. They’re making weight so they probably haven’t eaten much that day, probably haven’t had any fluids. They’re getting asked certain questions they maybe don’t want to answer. I understand what they’re going through so I have a compassion that you can only have if you’ve done it.
All in all, it’s awkward sometimes but it’s getting easier to do. Sometimes I can predict something based on my experience. I feel confident knowing I can do the job not just from an intellectual standpoint, but experientially as well. I know what it feels like to get cut. I know what it feels like to get hit with a good shot and get your bell rung. I know exactly what a swollen eye feels like. So it just helps me bring something to the booth that’s unique and enhances what they’re already doing.
Was there a moment when you felt the most comfortable? Like a fight where you went, ‘You know I killed this broadcast.’
I’m really hard on myself. That can be good and bad for me. But I’ve had a couple of shows where I said you know what? I think I did good. My wife is always the confirmation.
“Babe, how’d it look?†And she’ll say, “You did that baby, you did good.†So if she tells me that then I’m not tripping. But I’m getting more comfortable. Whenever I get back-to-back shows without a big lull, that’s when I feel the best. But I’d say my biggest challenge right now is my on-camera. When they say three, two, one we’re live and you’ve got the mic in your hand and you have to answer questions on the fly … you have to look at who’s addressing you but also keep in mind you’ve got to make eye contact with the viewer, that’s what I’m trying to improve upon. I normally feel comfortable calling the fight. But it’s when I’m on camera is what I have to work on.
I wanted to ask you something related to what Kevin Durant said in an interview with James Brown from CBS. He’s 25 and you’re 29 so you’re still relatively young guys, but something he said was interesting — he said he’s tired of being No. 2. As someone who’s widely considered the second-best fighter right now, does that bother you?
From a competitive standpoint I want to be No. 1. That’s why I got into the sport. But I’m OK being No. 2 because of who I’m No. 2 to. That’s Floyd Mayweather. It’s different with Kevin and LeBron because they’re similar in age and they’re peers. But I grew up watching Floyd. So the fact that I’m No. 2 to him right now is a big deal. I’m fine with that for now. That’s just me paying homage to him. It’s not like he’s fallen off. He’s getting better. He’s creating more revenue, selling more pay-per-views. He’s still dominating these fighters at 35, 36 years old. I’ve been fortunate to do what I’ve done for the amount of time that I’ve done it but he’s doubled that. So I respect that. I think I would be wrong to demand the No. 1 spot with the resume Floyd Mayweather has.
How do you put what he’s been able to do in perspective?
Well, I think Floyd had a lot of things work in his favor. He started off with Arturo Gatti in his first pay-per-view, so even from the start he had the right opponents. His next fight generated 200,000-300,000 buys, but then came Oscar de la Hoya who is a money-making machine for whatever reason. Floyd also reinvented himself at that time. He said ‘I’m no longer going to be Pretty Boy — nobody’s accepting that.’ He changed his name to Money Mayweather, The Villain. And it worked for him. Then he fought Ricky Hatton … he kind of just built from there. Now he’s the cash cow. So I just think it was the combination of having the right opponents, doing the right things that I wouldn’t be willing to do.
Like what?
I’m not going to get into Floyd’s business from that standpoint. But he’s just willing to do certain things or say things that I’m just not willing to do or say for another buy or to put another person in the seats. I’m just not. I feel like I have my fanbase and as long as I’m promoted the right way
my fanbase is going to continue to grow. But I have to stay true to who I am. If I never sell a million pay-per-views but I stayed true to who I was and never sold out, I think that’s a bonus for me. That’s my perspective on it.Casual fans think it’s either Floyd Mayweather-type numbers for an event or bust. But that’s not true. There’s a lot of guys like me. I’m building a Hall of Fame career. I make a great living. I have great credentials and I’m living my dream. But sometimes it gets lost in the shuffle because it’s Mayweather mania right now. People don’t remember that it took Floyd twenty years to get there. He didn’t start making real money until he was in his thirties. Furthermore, that may not be for everybody. They talk about Bernard Hopkins saying that he never really made it to that point. Well, I disagree. He’s a guy who is living off his interest right now. He’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He’s still beating these young guys — that’s a pretty successful career. It may not be a Mayweather-type career, but that’s pretty darn successful. I know God has a plan for me and along that journey I’m going to try to stay true to myself and my faith. The key is to walk away with no regrets.
What do you remember the most about your Olympic experience in Athens?
It was hot. [Laughs.]
When you think back what do you remember the most about the experience?
The people were welcoming. The food was great. Just overall, I felt comfortable there. We had just gone to war around that time and tensions were high, but it was a place where everyone made you feel welcome. It’s a place I’ve been meaning to go back to because I didn’t really get a chance to experience the country. We were there for a purpose. We all felt good being there.
I ask because the Olympics are coming up and one of the questions I’m curious about is what increased opportunities lay ahead for athletes who win gold as opposed to silver or bronze — you won the gold medal in 2004. Why do you think you weren’t able to capitalize from an endorsement standpoint?
It was different for me because if you look at the class of fighters before the 2000 class — Ricardo Williams, Rocky Juarez from Houston — those guys were both silver medalists and got major signing bonuses in the six- and seven figures coming out of the blocks. And Juarez went on to have a successful career. Williams unfortunately got into some trouble and didn’t really pan out the way they thought. I think that hurt my class. Promoters and sponsors weren’t willing to take risks. I didn’t get what I thought I was going to get. I didn’t get any major endorsement deals. I didn’t really even get a whole lot of attention.
It wasn’t like Ray Leonard in ‘76 when the games were on NBC. He endeared himself to the American people. They knew his story. We fought on a random network at two or three in the morning. Nobody knew about it. So there were a lot of factors. My gold medal went unnoticed. It was hurtful but it also motivated me. Not to prove anybody wrong … but it’s given me that healthy chip on my shoulder to keep grinding, to keep working. Some would say even at this point that I don’t have the notoriety or certain things that I should have. I’m fortunate to have some significant endorsement deals with Jordan Brand, Shoe Palace, Everlast, HBO… so things are happening. I do think sometimes that not getting everything up front may have been a blessing in disguise. Because you always feel like you’re ready for multi-millions right away. But I don’t know if I would have been ready for that back in 2004. I didn’t, and I kind of earned it the hard way. I appreciate it now more than I would have back then.
What did you go through personally having not gotten the attention you probably rightly deserved given what you’ve accomplished?
It was hurtful. I just knew that I was the only guy who won a gold medal. I mean, initially there was a lot of promise from major companies. Not one major endorsement deal. And a lot of things came into play. Boxing had a bad rap. The 2000 class. Nobody really got to see what I accomplished. It was tough. My wife would ask, you know, ‘Baby, what’s going on?’ And to this day, now that I’m a professional I have people saying I don’t get the credit that I deserve. It’s for a reason. I don’t know what that reason is, but it’s allowed me to have a blue-collar mentality even though I was a gold medalist. Even with that I feel like I can’t complain because of what I accomplished and what I’ve made financially. I really feel like the end is going to be bigger than the beginning. It’s going to end the way it’s supposed to end.
I have a big pay-per-view coming up and even getting opportunities like this — this isn’t a boxing website. And these are the interviews I love to do because I’m so much more than just a fighter. I have a mind and a knack for business. I care about being an example for my generation.
You’re a Brand Jordan guy. How are you fitting in and what’s your take on your experience so far?
Their culture matches Michael Jordan’s mindset as a player, which is that you have to earn everything. He had to earn his contract. When I first came out of the Olympics, I got my first deal but I didn’t really understand the magnitude of it. But I appreciate it more now. The contract ran out and years went by when there was no deal, but we were able to do another one right before the Chad Dawson fight. It’s a significant deal. It’s a blessing. I’ve got the greatest basketball player of all-time supporting me. I also get to see how the business is run, which I’m very interested in. Also, it’s an opportunity for me to make money without taking any punches. That’s what it’s about to me. Yes, I’m happy with what I’m going to earn in the ring, but what kind of earning power do I have outside the ring? To be associated with a brand like this is great. They don’t give away money.
I take my hat off to Jeff Fried, who is a good friend of mine. He helped facilitate and negotiate that deal. Larry Miller who is the president and everybody associated with the brand. It makes me proud to know that I have a relationship with it.
Can you go to them for anything?
I feel like it’s a family. Jordan Brand is on the campus of Nike. And they have a fraction of the employees. But that’s by design. When I was getting ready for my last fight, I came into a boardroom like this but a lot smaller.
First, I was with two or three people from the apparel team. We went over what we wanted the outfit to look like. They had this intensity, like, you’re going to have the best uniform anybody’s ever seen. Then the footwear team comes. Larry Miller’s office is right there. Howard White’s office is right there. It’s a family. I’m by far not the biggest athlete on the roster but they treat me like I am. My team had their own warm-ups, shoes, bags, socks. Everything was neatly put in there — everything they do is first-class. If they have to hand deliver it they’ll do that. They called to make sure everything was top-notch. It’s everything that people say that it is. But it’s a family, though.
Hearing you talk about this you’re obviously very passionate about having the opportunity. Do you think athletes take endorsements for granted?
It’s possible. But the guys I look at — the LeBrons, the [Kevin Durants], they talk business. These guys are cognizant and aware of where their money’s going and what they want to invest in. I think today’s modern athlete is no longer ignorant about the way money works. You have research at your fingertips.
Plus, my generation has seen what happened to guys back in the day. I’m not trying to be on 30 for 30 being broke. So guys have wisened up. Who wants to be that negative example. So, more athletes appreciate things a lot more and are trying to maximize these things they get. Guys aren’t willing to just get paid to wear a shoe. They’re now saying give me my own line. Then maybe that can parlay into another. I just saw LeBron’s wife just open up … —
A juice bar.
Yeah! That’s big. That has nothing to do with basketball. But because he had the shoe deal, because he had other deals off the court, there was an opportunity. So athletes as a whole are just getting a lot smarter. Definitely doing more than we were maybe years ago.
What kinds of investments are you currently involved in?
My wife and I have stocks. We have some bonds. We have our retirement set aside, and we have some defined benefit plans. Then we have our nest egg of savings. I was just involved with SweetGreen. Jeff Fried also helped me facilitate that. He’s also helping with something with FanPix. I think it’s going to transcend the fan experience in sports. It’s basically the ability to capture the biggest moments at the arena or ball park. And once fans leave they can go and get that picture and keep that moment. Those are things I’m slowly getting into. The main thing right now is to get the capital and save it. I think sometimes us athletes get involved in too much sometimes. It’s different if
you’re getting $20 million in guaranteed money. But there are no guaranteed contracts in boxing; we get paid fight to fight. I’m sensitive to that which is why I’m saving as much as I can. When my career as a fighter as a over, then it’ll be time to put my business hat on and get into some things, maybe start my own promotions company.So generating revenue is your main focus.
That’s my main focus. That and making sure I pay the IRS and pay them on time. [Laughs.] I don’t want those kinds of problems. As a businessman, I just want to make the right decisions and make them at the right time. These are my biggest earning years, and when it comes to investing capital I’ll err on the side of caution.
What kind of philosophy do you have when it comes to what type of businessman you’re going to be?
I don’t know just yet. James Prince is my manager. He’s a very wealthy man, very shrewd, very sharp. I think one thing that I want to do is start my own promotional company. For years, I said I didn’t want to get involved but I can be the first client. I have the name S.O.G. Promotions, which is getting visibility right now. I made sure that was in my contract. I’m not licensed yet, but when that time comes people will know what S.O.G. Promotions is. That way, I own my image and I own my likeness and rights to my contract. I paid my dues — I’ve never tripped on merchandise being sold at my fights and where the money went. But now it bothers me. It’s my face, it’s my name on the merchandise but I’m not getting a cut because I had to sign an exclusive deal. At the right time this is something that I want to do.
If I can sign the right fighters — and I’ll probably be very, very selective — I would be open to signing to helping them in whatever way I could. If I can’t help them I don’t want to be involved because I don’t want to hurt anybody’s career. That’s another avenue. But just again, being sensitive. I don’t have a list of things I want to get into but I am learning a lot right now. I’m looking at people who are successful but I’m also looking at people who made mistakes. When my times comes, I’ll be ready. This is a learning season for me.
I’ve followed your career now for a while and I’ve never had confirmation one way or the other on what S.O.G. means, but I think I know what it means. Is going into the ministry something that’s in your future?
I think that’s the ultimate endgame for me. It’s been spoken to me before. My pastor is Napoleon Kaufman, the ex-Raider and I go to The Well Christian Community Church in Livermore, California. He’s been in a similar position. Before we started going to his church it was something that I feel like the Lord was leading me to do. I have a passion for it but it’s not something you jump into. Just like on the business side, I just have to keep getting in my word, spend time with the Lord and just allow God to keep developing me. I don’t know if that means I’ll be in a pastoral situation or as a minister of the gospel, believe that’s something that is the endgame for me. It’s probably my real calling.
But you’re a natural born fighter: How do you strike a balance between your sensibilities as a fighter — a profession in which time is limited and you’ve got to go for yours as quickly as you can — with your patience that you have as an aspiring businessman and even what you want to do from a spiritual standpoint?
Just learning, man. I know that the ministry is nothing to play with. I’ve seen success and I’ve seen failure. My minister told me — and I love him for this — he basically told me that he’s not going to let anybody prostitute me because of my name. He said they tried to do it to him. So I just have the right people around me. I also learn a lot by watching. You’re right. In this sport, you really do have to be aggressive. But I know what arena I’m in. And look — I do a lot of praying, man. I pray for help. And wisdom. Sometimes that wisdom comes in the form of a man. Sometimes I figure things out on my own. That’s why when I talk about my faith it’s not to throw it in anybody’s face or be obnoxious. This is my lifeline. It’s what allows me to survive and thrive to do what I’m doing. I haven’t mastered it, but it’s a constant battle. You’ve got to fight for balance.